oo-er

[freckles_and_doubt]

Mich sent me this scary link. The religious right are out to take over the world.

On a not unrelated note, LJ appear to be indulging in stupid censorship: users with icons depicting breastfeeding mothers have been threatened with suspension. Making Light has a good summary.

Comments

Breastfeeding

[(Anonymous)]

Call me conservative; I think breastfeeding is a Great and Wonderful thing but I actually don't want to see other women's breasts wandering around in public, thanks.

Re: Breastfeeding

[bumpycat.livejournal.com]

What, solitary breasts wandering about, naked and unattached to the body?

On a more serious note, the issue here is that breast-feeding is being stigmatized. This makes it harder for women to breast-feed in public. More importantly, it means that women are discouraged from breast-feeding, since it is seen as shameful or rude. Have you seen some of the userpics they banned? A medieval painting of the Madonna nursing is hardly offensive, unless you're freakishly prudish.

Re: Breastfeeding

[(Anonymous)]

Heh, no, I have no issues with the pictures. And I agree that breastfeeding shouldn't be stigmatised at all, but encouraged. I just object to women I hardly know assuming it's fine to whip out a breast in public, showing all. Perhaps it's to do with my personal feelings that one's body is a private thing :) I don't want to see my friends naked; nor do I want to show off my body to them. Make any sense?

Re: Breastfeeding

[bumpycat.livejournal.com]

It does make sense, and I also feel a bit uncomfortable seeing someone nursing in public. But, it comes down to what the parties involved want; I'm not involved, so I don't really have any grounds to comment. What it comes down to, I think, is that it's an issue of personal freedom for someone else; not really relevant to me, but I'll support their freedom. I certainly don't have any grounds to object; projecting my discomfort on them is just rude.

Re: Breastfeeding

[kadekraan.livejournal.com]

Is the discomfort coming from encountering an intimate act in public, or the bared breast? Either way, would you accord the same tolerance to people who are performing other types of intimate acts, or exposing their breasts for, er, other reasons?

Re: Breastfeeding

[bumpycat.livejournal.com]

The bared breast is what makes me uncomfortable. And look, I'm a guy, I'm never going to object to bared breasts. But breastfeeding is a *good* reason for bared breasts.

How did I get into this conversation? Dammit, I'm blushing.

Re: Breastfeeding

[kadekraan.livejournal.com]

I can't think of any non-good reasons for voluntarily exposing a breast, except perhaps to deliberately cause discomfort in blushing members of the public ;-)

Re: Breastfeeding

[bumpycat.livejournal.com]

If someone else wants to add their viewpoint and spare me from having to comment more, I would be very grateful. :D

[ex-wytchfyn.livejournal.com]

No, no, Sir Breastalot. This is way too amusing to let you get away with a graceful retreat.

[bumpycat.livejournal.com]

Goddammit! :P

[ex-wytchfyn.livejournal.com]

And besides: dear lord man! Haven't you ever been to a Ren Faire? Like all species of human anatomy, there are certainly breasts which should not see the light of day!

Besides which, nobody's talking about the basic rudeness of bringing infants out in public to feed in the first place. Everyone knows they should be confined to their subterranean warrens, and encouraged to tear at their living prey as god intended!

[ex-wytchfyn.livejournal.com]

Yar. Indeed, one's discomfort when exposed to some objectionable public act is, far from being a poor reason to object to it, possibly the best and only reason. And as a society, we already have plenty of precedents to handle the my-discomfort-your-freedom-of-expression theme: how easy is it to avoid the display, are the displayers being mindful of the feelings of those around them, etc.

That being said: these are icons in an online medium. Surely there's an easily implementable fix involving (a) tagging potentially offensive icons, and (b) being able to select, in one's interface preferences, a 'no mature content' filter? Even Flickr has a 'may offend' feature.

Re: Breastfeeding

[(Anonymous)]

I've breastfed both my kids, and felt uncomfortable having to do it in public - much using of draping towels etc. By the time I was doing it for the 2nd baby, though, I felt much less self-conscious. This may sound weird, but the way I felt about my body/beasts changed during the whole nursing time. It was much more important to provide nutrition for the baby, they were a practical accesory at the times when the baby needed feeding, rather than something private. I mean, I still covered up (! :)), I was very aware that people could be feeling weird about what I was doing, and when possible I tried to find a private space. I guess what I'm getting at is, maybe that feeling of they're-just-milk-providers is stronger for some women, so they feel nothing about, erm, whipping them out. I can understand that. That said, I still think it's only fair to think about the fact that others (anyone who isn't a nursing mom, most likely) probably aren't feeling comfortable about the whole thing, and be a little considerate.
As far as the icon thing goes, I'm unimpressed that they want to ban them, that's just silly and unfair. But given the sensitivty of the issue, wythcfinder's suggestion of warning tags would be a pretty good solution.
My 2c
everymoment.

Warning: may contain references to br**sts

[starmadeshadow.livejournal.com]

I find it terrifying the extent to which Western society distorts or glosses over the mechanisms of physical existence. Suddenly a woman feeding her baby becomes a improper sexual object, with the emphasis on her breasts* rather than the baby's nourishment, and we add another entry to the list of healthy everyday occurrences which are considered impolite and shameful**. How long will it be before adults do not eat in public? Enjoying food is already considered slightly shameful by many, and of course the parallels between eating and sex should be obvious to the concerned censor.

* In Micronesia, it's considered extremely rude for a woman to show her legs above the knees, but breasts are worn bare, and the sun continues to rise and set. This whole breast issue is social conditioning, people. Get over it.
** And, on a more philosophical note, the responsibility for someone's reaction is accepted not by the person reacting, but by the person 'causing' the reaction by living their life in the best way they know how.