superheroic folklore

[freckles_and_doubt]

Chatting with wytchfynder at lunch the other day, I was somewhat surprised when he said he seldom remembers his dreams. I remember mine pretty vividly on a more or less daily basis; last night, for example, I dreamed I was at a departmental meeting of some sort which entailed about eight of us seated at a long table, at which the guest of honour was Sheri Tepper. She was cool :>. Although always seated distantly from me at the table, so we couldn't chat. This was clearly career wishful thinking on my part, but I'm curious: how often do you witterers remember your dreams? do I dream unusually vividly?

Have just madly devoured the four volumes of Ultimate X-Men, lent to me by a kind first_fallen. Am v. impressed. The artwork is beautiful, and the stories gritty and real. It's a very, very interesting comparison to the Uncanny X-Men anthology I've just read, which hails from the 1970s, and which has a very different sensibility. Far more adult, the modern ones; far less cutesy idealism, far more accomplishment in the storytelling. (These new ones seldom feel the need to insert text boxes telling you what's going on).

I am fast realising, though, that superhero comics are very much a folklore for our society. Comparing the film versions to the earlier and current versions, what they basically are is a retelling of the same story, not only in different settings, but with variations in plot. Characters remain pretty much the same, and their origin myths are similar; often the emotional interactions between them are repeated, too, at least to some extent. But each version is different and unique. This is pretty much how folklore works: there is no one "right" version, simply different, equally valid iterations, each momentarily stamped with the identity of the teller, whether scripter, artist or director. It's testament to the strength of the X-men as icons that they cheerfully survive this treatment, becoming more complex and interesting instead of losing all character.

Comments

[bumpycat.livejournal.com]

I rarely remember my dreams either. It may have something to do with being a sound sleeper - I'm not a deep sleeper, but I don't wake up unless disturbed. Of the few occasions when I remember dreams, I also remember being awoken for some reason.

[(Anonymous)]

I dream lots, colourfully and with great emotional intensity, and I remember them fairly well most days - sometimes they stay with me for aaaages, especially the emotional resonance. Good when basking in happy postClooney glow; not so good when I dream that I'm in a raging fight with my mom and she is trying *to kill me* as well as tell me how worthless I am.

I may have unresolved mother issues.

scroob

[extemporanea.livejournal.com]

It's weird, from the (admittedly limited) witterer-survey we seem to be a minority. I can't imagine not remembering my dreams, they're an enormous pleasure in my life. (And possibly the reason why I have a 9-10 hour natural sleep period).

I have the same intense emotional experiences that you do, but I don't actually often have nightmares these days. Then again, I don't have issues with my mother, either ;>.

[(Anonymous)]

An enormous pleasure, yes, and a long sleep cycle, yes! Sleep is a very enjoyable thing for me. It's not just something that happens. It's quite an active experience.

s

[kadekraan.livejournal.com]

Sleep for me is just something I have to do so I don't fall face down on my keyboard and end up with QWERTY forehead. The fact that I have to sleep at all irritates me. It hasn't always been like this, I remember really enjoying it, especially when in the midst of a good procrastination. But I may have broken the habit when I started doing long commutes to work 5 or 6 years ago - couldn't fit in everything I wanted, so sleep drew the short straw. Might be a connection between dream memories and active enjoyment of sleep? Or maybe just length of sleep cycle.

[origamitiger.livejournal.com]

I don't remeber my dreams and I wish I did. I just get snippets just when I wake up and the float away like feathers in the breeze. The snippets tend to rather interesting, hence wishing to remember them.

[khoi-boi.livejournal.com]

I don't dream...

The only problem I have with the Super-as-folklore theory is my perception that, outside our geeky subculture, superheroes are much less pervasive. The average person will only encounter the movie version, missing all the layering that's there. Not sure how you feel about it, but I think perhaps that makes things a bit less miffic.

[extemporanea.livejournal.com]

That's okay, actually: any folklore tends to be meaningful only to the culture which produces and consumes it, not necessarily to outsiders. As stv would say, context! X-men - or any of the comic-book mythologies - work perfectly as folklore within the context of the geeky comic-book subculture. IMNSHO, anyway.

[khoi-boi.livejournal.com]

True, that - I was just riffing on your use of "Society" in the OP.

And stv has stolen my schtick! I'm the one who always says "context" - although sometimes the full "context is King!" ejaculation.

[extemporanea.livejournal.com]

Stv has only stolen your schtick in a parodic fashion - he adopted the phrase to shout at me whenever he thinks I'm getting academic and pretentious in a discussion (or, possibly, if he's losing). I did point out that, in fact, it's something I never actually say, and he has since moved on to "Interesting, but why?" which is, in fact, a lot more representative.

[kadekraan.livejournal.com]

Hardly ever remember them. The ones I do remember usually have violent or grisly imagery... I once dreamt I was stoned to death in a seaside mediaeval village. I died and they put my body in a coffin and dumped it in the sea. I actually quite liked that one, for sheer entertainment value.

Your departmental meeting comment also made me realise that I can't remember *ever* having a happy wishful thinking type of dream. Welcome to my world ;-)

[extemporanea.livejournal.com]

Possibly you only remember the unpleasant ones because they're more vivid and emotional? Some of mine are quite convoluted, exciting and generally illogical, but I also occasionally have amazing, fantastical ones - most recently, flying around a forest of enormous trees. Too cool!

[kadekraan.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's certainly possible. Hey, did you see this (http://community.livejournal.com/virgule/108366.html#cutid1) on one of the LJ communities?

[extemporanea.livejournal.com]

Oo-er, nice community - I hadn't found that one, thanks!

Dream a little dream

[first-fallen.livejournal.com]

Dreams: I always remember my dreams. Sometimes only for a few minutes, if they're not particularly interesting. I have very vivid dreams, often they're kinda lucid in that I know that I'm dreaming and can change bits of the dream. I have had wishful thinking dreams of the revenge kind, wherein people I loathe (we'll not mention names, shall we :P) get their comeuppance, or just generally pwned.

Supers: I really like the new tellings of the X-men. While I've always liked them, the old stories were just a little unbelievable (not in the "omg, he can fly??" sense, but in the emotional, what they actually do as people sense). I am glad you enjoyed the books, I thought you might. Will lend you Astonishing X-men (by Joss) when I get it, with the other Ultimate books (when they arrive at the shop). I'd suggest the other Ultimate series (Fantastic Four, Spider-man) but they don't have the same soap-opera mythic quality that X-men seems to have. Weird. You should also read Origins, the graphic novel of Wolverine's back story. It's very cool. I will purchase it and lend it to you. Your friendly neighbourhood X-porn merchant.

Voice: I am coming down with something, head full of snot and sore throat. If it gets worse Belladonna will be one soprano short on Saturday :(.

Re: Dream a little dream

[extemporanea.livejournal.com]

Yay, more X-Men! nice pusher lady...

The Belladonna thing is going to be interesting: I, too, am down with a cold, and am steadily losing my voice. Cosmic wossnames clearly hate us. (I also think we may have been over-rehearsing, that damned English madrigal is going round and round in my head like a mad thing, interspersed with alicornos. It may be the muzzy head from the cold, of course...)

dreams

[wolverine-nun.livejournal.com]

I hardly ever remember my dreams. When I do, it tends to be really boring stuff, remembered several days later, when I go "hold on! I dreamt you made me this very curry!" That sort of thing.

I have one very special dream that I did remember. It was incredibly tranquil and had me floating down an improbable river past large peaceful mansions. Very odd, but very beautiful and peaceful. If I ever need to feel calm or "go to" a peaceful place in my head, that's where I go.

I have done the cliched thing of dreaming I'm at school and we're about to write a Biology exam that I didn't know about. Not very nice at all.

As a child I regularly dreamt of being able to fly. All the time. I stopped long before becoming a teenager, and have always missed those dreams.